Comments on: It’s not graceful or enhancing this progression is just degrading http://kid666.com/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/ Sat, 11 Sep 2010 02:24:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: sh1mmer http://kid666.com/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/comment-page-1/#comment-59768 sh1mmer Wed, 21 Feb 2007 00:56:58 +0000 http://www.kid666.com/blog/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/#comment-59768 I think my main feeling is not that we should try to make another version for every screen reader. It's just that Gez shows an <a href="http://www.kid666.com/blog/2007/01/09/accessibility-patterns/" rel="nofollow">accessibility pattern</a> that works for JAWS 7.1 as well as JAWS 8.0. If we can come up with a way to make older versions of and other screen readers JAWS work correctly with everything else we should. That said, other than venting my general frustration level, this post doesn't mean I plan to abandon AJAX any time soon. I think my main feeling is not that we should try to make another version for every screen reader. It’s just that Gez shows an accessibility pattern that works for JAWS 7.1 as well as JAWS 8.0. If we can come up with a way to make older versions of and other screen readers JAWS work correctly with everything else we should.

That said, other than venting my general frustration level, this post doesn’t mean I plan to abandon AJAX any time soon.

]]> By: Victor Tsaran http://kid666.com/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/comment-page-1/#comment-59767 Victor Tsaran Wed, 21 Feb 2007 00:32:49 +0000 http://www.kid666.com/blog/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/#comment-59767 I wanted to post this separately to keep information more compact. Here are several alternative screen readers to look at: 1. A new open source initiative called NVDA, www.nvaccess.org/nvda. 2. Firevox, a screen reading plug-in for Firefox, http://www.firevox.clcworld.net/ 3. Freedom Box, a fairly affordable screen reader, http://www.freedombox.info/about.html Hope this will get you started! I wanted to post this separately to keep information more compact.
Here are several alternative screen readers to look at:
1. A new open source initiative called NVDA, http://www.nvaccess.org/nvda.
2. Firevox, a screen reading plug-in for Firefox, http://www.firevox.clcworld.net/
3. Freedom Box, a fairly affordable screen reader, http://www.freedombox.info/about.html
Hope this will get you started!

]]> By: Victor Tsaran http://kid666.com/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/comment-page-1/#comment-59766 Victor Tsaran Wed, 21 Feb 2007 00:25:07 +0000 http://www.kid666.com/blog/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/#comment-59766 I would like to second Christian's comments here. There is always a trade-off between advancements in technology and backwards compatibility. I'd rather see AT vendors and community working together on solutions to the Ajax accessibility problem, rather than trying to figure out how to make JAWS 4.1 or Window-eyes 3.0 work with Ajax. Let's be realistic here! I would like to second Christian’s comments here. There is always a trade-off between advancements in technology and backwards compatibility. I’d rather see AT vendors and community working together on solutions to the Ajax accessibility problem, rather than trying to figure out how to make JAWS 4.1 or Window-eyes 3.0 work with Ajax. Let’s be realistic here!

]]> By: Chris Heilmann http://kid666.com/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/comment-page-1/#comment-59642 Chris Heilmann Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:10:56 +0000 http://www.kid666.com/blog/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/#comment-59642 I am still not sure about the "Ajax doesn't work" article and I consider the approach Gez is taking far too technical. Pending real testing I always thought that loading content via Ajax and then setting the focus of the browser to this new content would at least tell screen reader users that something happened. Another precaution is changing the element that invokes the Ajax call - as in changing the value of a button to "loading" when you submit the form. Personally I'd never build an app that _relies_ on JavaScript and the best accessible approach is having a message on the page first up that explains that the following app is using Ajax and offer a non-JS version as an alternative to go to. We stopped creating bespoke versions for every broken browser out there, why should screen readers be different? <a href="http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria" rel="nofollow">ARIA</a> will be a solution, the problem isn't really that we use JS, the problem is that HTML is bad in handling keyboard access and generally not rich or clever enough to be used for applications. The ball is in the court of browser and OS vendors as accessibility of applications is far too rich to be tackled in a simulated GUI inside an app that was meant to deliver web content and doesn't even have a native way of scaling graphics or embedding media. I am still not sure about the “Ajax doesn’t work” article and I consider the approach Gez is taking far too technical. Pending real testing I always thought that loading content via Ajax and then setting the focus of the browser to this new content would at least tell screen reader users that something happened. Another precaution is changing the element that invokes the Ajax call – as in changing the value of a button to “loading” when you submit the form.

Personally I’d never build an app that _relies_ on JavaScript and the best accessible approach is having a message on the page first up that explains that the following app is using Ajax and offer a non-JS version as an alternative to go to. We stopped creating bespoke versions for every broken browser out there, why should screen readers be different? ARIA will be a solution, the problem isn’t really that we use JS, the problem is that HTML is bad in handling keyboard access and generally not rich or clever enough to be used for applications. The ball is in the court of browser and OS vendors as accessibility of applications is far too rich to be tackled in a simulated GUI inside an app that was meant to deliver web content and doesn’t even have a native way of scaling graphics or embedding media.

]]> By: Steve Webster http://kid666.com/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/comment-page-1/#comment-59630 Steve Webster Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:21:09 +0000 http://www.kid666.com/blog/2007/02/15/its-not-graceful-or-enhancing-this-progression-is-just-degrading/#comment-59630 A superb, well thought out article. It seems to me like the vendors of assistive technology should be investing in web developers. It's all very well being able to buy the latest version of JAWS or WIndows Eyes, but we need access to something like <a href="http://browsers.evolt.org/" rel="nofollow">evolt.org's browser archive</a> if we're going to support the vast majority of users out there. A superb, well thought out article. It seems to me like the vendors of assistive technology should be investing in web developers. It’s all very well being able to buy the latest version of JAWS or WIndows Eyes, but we need access to something like evolt.org’s browser archive if we’re going to support the vast majority of users out there.

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